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Post by Patty on Jan 1, 2012 23:52:43 GMT -5
I had no intentions of focusing on MGP and Relativity again until I saw a commercial for Haywire, a girl-spy/action/thriller due out soon, distributed by....wait for it....Relativity Media. Mr. Kavanaugh seems to have had no trouble promoting any of his movies before or since MGP, which makes me truly suspicious of his intentions with the movie. As one of Gerry's best friends, he should have at least been sensitive to the fact that this was an extremely important movie for his career and needed to be handled with kid gloves. I think the Oscar hype for the movie was more about Kavanaugh than it was for Gerry. There is no excuse for his seemingly deliberate sabotage of MGP; you don't rescind financial support for a movie you have already announced and premiered, then turn around and throw $100 million at a rip-off of one of that star's earlier movies.
The end of 2011 has brought Hollywood to the point of critical mass. Between the crap mainstream is putting out and the bloggers killing off Indie movies at will, movie goers have become apathetic and have started second-guessing themselves. Movies that would have been successful 3 or 4 years ago are being panned, mostly by bloggers, and those that wouldn't have stood a chance are the most hyped and make the most money now. The criteria for critical praise is so narrow that only about 30% of all movies made today are acclaimed, whether by bloggers sitting in their basements or mainstream critics. This is affecting box office to the point where something has to give or they won't all survive.
As far as Gerry is concerned, I think mainstream isn't ready for him yet. If you look at the men (and I use the term loosely) they are pushing ad nauseum, they are the most effeminate group of pansies that ever existed in Hollywood history. When I speak of the critical mass they are facing, this is part of the problem. Average people are having difficulties buying Gosling, Reynolds and even Bradley Cooper as the "new" manly men. The studios are having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to push their movies and their images to make people believe that they are the hottest and the most talented actors around. That won't last much longer if for no other reason than it's costing too much. While their movies make a lot of money, they aren't really profitable between production costs, salaries and promotion, but the average person is only aware of box office, not the sometimes hundreds of millions spent to make them go watch these crappy movies.
Gerry has made some unfortunate decisions in his career, TBH being the worst, but it has little to do with how he has been treated. He is unwilling to allow his talent to be harnessed and that is not how this relatively new crew in Hollywood works. Instead of allowing Gerry to be himself and to capitalize on his appeal, they instead want him to be their Sly Stallone; the monosyllabic caveman who dates or marries their starlets to perpetuate their effeminate ideology. I think Gerry is on the right track now with his newest choices and his decision to keep his personal life private. If he continues on this path, he will overcome his reputation eventually and soon he will be taken seriously. When that happens, we can all say "we told you so!".
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Post by gersarchitect on Jan 2, 2012 0:31:23 GMT -5
You make some great points, Patty, and I think you are dead on. It has seemed to me for a while that the powers in Hollywood are pushing a certain type of man on us. Just look at People magazine and the men they feature. Real men like Gerry barely ever get mentioned.
I wish folks would stop listening to critics and the media that tells them what is "in". People need to start judging movies and actors on their own and not go in with a prejudice they formed by listening to critics, gossip and the media. A good example how media can make somebody are the Kardashians. Why in the world are they famous? Because they get stuffed down our throats by the media. And something or somebody with more quality and real talent is ignored....
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Post by bluebutterfly on Jan 2, 2012 1:42:39 GMT -5
I think you and patty make some good points GA, but respectfully, i'm not sure i totally agree. i think to some degree that certain men are being pushed down our throats because mainstream society for the moment favors that type, although i agree that the representatives of this type that hollywood is choosing are very questionable. but to say that these pansies (and i agree, they are) have no support and are all media-hyped...that's where i disagree. look no further than the fact that gosling is popular enough to have people protest in his favor (no matter how small a protest, it happened) for the people mag "sexiest" list. like it or not, i think pansies are in. while again i agree that there is an undue amount of media hype around some really undeserving people, the fact remains that they are propped up by fans as well as media. much as i hate the kardashians, and trust me i do, they have followers and tv viewers on their side still. i also respectfully disagree with an earlier post's theory that gerry's accent or the fact that he's not an american may be hindering his chances at awards. america has a well-worn love affair with brits and frequently gives british actors awards. the oscars also continuously show love to actors with heavier accents than gerry's, such as penelope cruz or her husband javier bardem. i think that the idea that gerry doesn't get awards because he didn't play the game all the way (although i argue he did try playing it this year) is closer to the mark. hollywood only likes those that are rebels on the surface, for marketing purposes, not for real. i also think that as much as we here on this board appreciate it, the fact that gerry has bounced around so much between genres, and has (i'm sorry to say) made some very poorly looked-upon choices critic-wise, particularly in the last couple of years, is biting him in the butt pretty hard-core all of a sudden. hollywood is fickle, and they loved him while they could promote the heck out of the bad-boy reputation. but when TBH happened, they turned on him just as fast. i still say that movie came damn close to tanking his career. although of course not saint aniston's (eye roll). patty's right about MGP and its promotion. while i'm sure gerry can't afford to publicly shun any movie studio (no actor can) i would have a very hard time being friends with kavanaugh after watching MGP getting dissed and freakin' immortals get the full-court media press. i can only assume that there was some kind of conversation that happened behind the scenes that kept gerry in kavanaugh's corner somehow. the nice part about all of this? i think pansies (as we're calling them) and crap movies will get their come-uppance sooner rather than later. patty's right, the movie-going public is getting tired of hollywood's lack of effort and/or creativity where actual quality product is concerned. this year's box office was not good. just noticed how long this post is. apologies
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Post by Dianne on Jan 2, 2012 11:24:14 GMT -5
I had no intentions of focusing on MGP and Relativity again until I saw a commercial for Haywire, a girl-spy/action/thriller due out soon, distributed by....wait for it....Relativity Media. Mr. Kavanaugh seems to have had no trouble promoting any of his movies before or since MGP, which makes me truly suspicious of his intentions with the movie. As one of Gerry's best friends, he should have at least been sensitive to the fact that this was an extremely important movie for his career and needed to be handled with kid gloves. I think the Oscar hype for the movie was more about Kavanaugh than it was for Gerry. There is no excuse for his seemingly deliberate sabotage of MGP; you don't rescind financial support for a movie you have already announced and premiered, then turn around and throw $100 million at a rip-off of one of that star's earlier movies. The end of 2011 has brought Hollywood to the point of critical mass. Between the crap mainstream is putting out and the bloggers killing off Indie movies at will, movie goers have become apathetic and have started second-guessing themselves. Movies that would have been successful 3 or 4 years ago are being panned, mostly by bloggers, and those that wouldn't have stood a chance are the most hyped and make the most money now. The criteria for critical praise is so narrow that only about 30% of all movies made today are acclaimed, whether by bloggers sitting in their basements or mainstream critics. This is affecting box office to the point where something has to give or they won't all survive. As far as Gerry is concerned, I think mainstream isn't ready for him yet. If you look at the men (and I use the term loosely) they are pushing ad nauseum, they are the most effeminate group of pansies that ever existed in Hollywood history. When I speak of the critical mass they are facing, this is part of the problem. Average people are having difficulties buying Gosling, Reynolds and even Bradley Cooper as the "new" manly men. The studios are having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to push their movies and their images to make people believe that they are the hottest and the most talented actors around. That won't last much longer if for no other reason than it's costing too much. While their movies make a lot of money, they aren't really profitable between production costs, salaries and promotion, but the average person is only aware of box office, not the sometimes hundreds of millions spent to make them go watch these crappy movies. Gerry has made some unfortunate decisions in his career, TBH being the worst, but it has little to do with how he has been treated. He is unwilling to allow his talent to be harnessed and that is not how this relatively new crew in Hollywood works. Instead of allowing Gerry to be himself and to capitalize on his appeal, they instead want him to be their Sly Stallone; the monosyllabic caveman who dates or marries their starlets to perpetuate their effeminate ideology. I think Gerry is on the right track now with his newest choices and his decision to keep his personal life private. If he continues on this path, he will overcome his reputation eventually and soon he will be taken seriously. When that happens, we can all say "we told you so!". Wow Patty awesome post.
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Post by Dianne on Jan 2, 2012 11:32:04 GMT -5
I think you and patty make some good points GA, but respectfully, i'm not sure i totally agree. i think to some degree that certain men are being pushed down our throats because mainstream society for the moment favors that type, although i agree that the representatives of this type that hollywood is choosing are very questionable. but to say that these pansies (and i agree, they are) have no support and are all media-hyped...that's where i disagree. look no further than the fact that gosling is popular enough to have people protest in his favor (no matter how small a protest, it happened) for the people mag "sexiest" list. like it or not, i think pansies are in. while again i agree that there is an undue amount of media hype around some really undeserving people, the fact remains that they are propped up by fans as well as media. much as i hate the kardashians, and trust me i do, they have followers and tv viewers on their side still. i also respectfully disagree with an earlier post's theory that gerry's accent or the fact that he's not an american may be hindering his chances at awards. america has a well-worn love affair with brits and frequently gives british actors awards. the oscars also continuously show love to actors with heavier accents than gerry's, such as penelope cruz or her husband javier bardem. i think that the idea that gerry doesn't get awards because he didn't play the game all the way (although i argue he did try playing it this year) is closer to the mark. hollywood only likes those that are rebels on the surface, for marketing purposes, not for real. i also think that as much as we here on this board appreciate it, the fact that gerry has bounced around so much between genres, and has (i'm sorry to say) made some very poorly looked-upon choices critic-wise, particularly in the last couple of years, is biting him in the butt pretty hard-core all of a sudden. hollywood is fickle, and they loved him while they could promote the heck out of the bad-boy reputation. but when TBH happened, they turned on him just as fast. i still say that movie came damn close to tanking his career. although of course not saint aniston's (eye roll). patty's right about MGP and its promotion. while i'm sure gerry can't afford to publicly shun any movie studio (no actor can) i would have a very hard time being friends with kavanaugh after watching MGP getting dissed and freakin' immortals get the full-court media press. i can only assume that there was some kind of conversation that happened behind the scenes that kept gerry in kavanaugh's corner somehow. the nice part about all of this? i think pansies (as we're calling them) and crap movies will get their come-uppance sooner rather than later. patty's right, the movie-going public is getting tired of hollywood's lack of effort and/or creativity where actual quality product is concerned. this year's box office was not good. just noticed how long this post is. apologies Equally awesome post!!! I too hope that this year is a turning point for Gerry. I will admit this now publicly now since it is a mute point, but Bounty Hunter was a horrible movie. It was as horrible as that blue plaid shirt Gerry had to wear for almost the entire movie.
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Post by gersarchitect on Jan 2, 2012 12:02:25 GMT -5
BB, you make some good points but I still think that Gerry's accent is a little bit of a hurdle. I've read too many reviews of his movies where his accent was critized. I think with the right movie choice it won't matter so much like it did with Javier or Penelope but it's still an additional thing he has to overcome when he plays an American vs. an American actor.
I didn't mean to say that those effeminate men or the Kardashians don't have a following, I know they do. Sorry if it came across the wrong way, but they get hyped up way beyond their talent and the amount of followers. For instance Ryan Reynolds. I think he is so overrated and got so hyped up especially when People mag voted him sexiest man alive. He really got pushed down our throats, yet his movies have not been doing so well as you would think by the way the media has pushed him....
But all and all I totally agree that Gerry hurt himself with The Bounty Hunter and maybe a little with TUT and PSILY too. But TBH is just an awful movie, agreed Dianne.
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Post by mymymy on Jan 2, 2012 12:34:33 GMT -5
George gets all the good roles. Gerard could do just as good of a job than this but it's all a popularity political thing again. I think Gerard is doing well. It isn't all about awards. How can someone say this performance is the best. I saw Descendants and wasn't that taken by George's performance. I think the Oscars has lost its credibility. I mean Sandra Bullock got it for Blind Side? Please. I think Hollywood is a joke nowadays. Gerard is on the outskirts of the Hollywood scene which I think is cool. I saw MGP and felt it wasn't all it could have been but then I have not been impressed with all movies these days. I think Gerry will hit on something fantastic soon but in the mean time I will support him just like I would my kid and say he is doing fantastic(which he is). I really believe he loves the challenge.
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Post by bluebutterfly on Jan 2, 2012 13:09:31 GMT -5
BB, you make some good points but I still think that Gerry's accent is a little bit of a hurdle. I've read too many reviews of his movies where his accent was critized. I think with the right movie choice it won't matter so much like it did with Javier or Penelope but it's still an additional thing he has to overcome when he plays an American vs. an American actor. I didn't mean to say that those effeminate men or the Kardashians don't have a following, I know they do. Sorry if it came across the wrong way, but they get hyped up way beyond their talent and the amount of followers. For instance Ryan Reynolds. I think he is so overrated and got so hyped up especially when People mag voted him sexiest men. He really got pushed down our throats, yet his movies have not been doing so well as you would think by the way the media has pushed him.... But all and all I totally agree that Gerry hurt himself with The Bounty Hunter and maybe a little with TUT and PSILY too. But TBH is just an awful movie, agreed Dianne. good points again GA. i got what you were saying about the femme pretty boys that are out there right now. i agree with you. i was just saying that i think they're a trend in the media and the public both, unfortunately. i think if you peg gerry's "american" accent against an actual american's, he does lose out. he tries, but i've heard that a scottish accent is one of the hardest to cover up, and i think this is an area that gerry really struggles in still. his american accent still slips noticeably sometimes, particularly on vowels (as it did some in TUT), so in that sense i get where you're going. i think a really good role with his own natural accent is the best way for him to go. try to avoid an american accent when possible. that's not a slight to gerry, accents are hard, and there are very few british actors that do a completely credible american accent, and vice versa. and i agree with you and Dianne, i thought TBH was awful. the only movie in recent memory that i've watched and actually felt sorry for one of the principal actors while doing so. you could tell gerry was really trying to make it work, and it was hard to watch, cuz it just didn't. last note: as to the wardrobe in that movie---just no. i know some of it was supposed to be for comedic effect (the multi-colored shirt) but ALL of them were terrible. and he was botoxed (forehead) and they gave him a too-dark hair color. i remember thinking to myself, how did they manage to make a good-looking man look so bad? again, the only movie in recent memory that i've watched and felt bad for one of the people in it.
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Post by canadia on Jan 2, 2012 13:13:38 GMT -5
Mymymy totally agree about The Blind Side. How can you get an Oscar and a Razzie for the same role though Sandra has the balls to pick up her Razzie and be goodnatured about it.
I saw the movie. It's a slightly better than average TV movie of the week. Not an Oscar worthy effort.
I think Gerry should have left the romcoms after TUT as it was a huge commercial success and I still say, having friends who will only watch romcoms, I know, that PS I Love You and TUT are considered superior romcoms even classics. TUT succeeded because it is one of the few romcoms that really appealed to GUYS and that is because of the racy script the story line AND Gerard. I think Gerard either by design or accident, by not being quite his svelte 300 self, made the character more believable because in my experience the guys who talk like Mike Chadway are usually guys who could use some improvement themselves yet they expect their women to be Playboy worthy.
But that is where he should have left it, on a high note.
I have to disagree a bit with some comments as I think the accent issue is probably a bigger issue than we think though he is improving with every movie but that's taken a lot of hard work and will continue to. Are you going to risk your $50 million dollar or more movie on an actor that is either the same nationality as the character or has proven themselves impeccable when it comes to accents? On the other hand there are a lot of roles where the nationality could be changed/isn't really relevant to to the story line.
I was watching a movie about Lincoln's assassination The Conspirator directed by Robert Redford and there were piles of non Americans in it, James McAvoy, Colm Meany [he was in LAC] Tom Wilkinson [he was in RocknRolla] and I just realized that Toby Kebbel played John Wilkes Booth well shut my mouth I didn't recognize him and their accents were flawless esp McAvoy who is also Glasgwegian. McAvoy is a whiz at accents [he did remind me of a younger much smaller Gerard in this movie, his character had a beard.]
Now before the Xmas movies came out, this had been the worst box office year since like 1995 though it seems some of the Xmas movies did well, like MI IV and Sherlock II so whether they saved the overall year who knows. In any event though that certainly has to be sending messages to filmmakers and the money to make films just gets tighter and tighter and it's going to make it tougher and tougher. I have said this before but I think if Gerry is going to make Pinkerton as a cable mini series, it would behoove himself to take the lead and show people just how good an actor he is. He's not going to make the commitment for a potentially ongoing cable series like many of his contemporaries [though it seems to be all the best writing is going into those shows, maybe if some of those writers would do some movie scripts LOL] but I think a well written cable mini series, like Mildred Pierce for example that Kate Winslet and Guy Pierce did, might give him a different kind of exposure.
I would also just LOVE to see Gerry doing say a one off appearance on something like Californication. Oh I would just be tickled pink or any of the other great cable series out there. Be really funny to see Emmy and Gerry on Shameless for one episode. One little appearance on a series can get you an Emmy of the other kind [because there is an Emmy for best guest star appearance in a series] though yes you don't do it for that you do it for the experience and the exposure of showing yet another side of one's range. But the quality of writing on these cable shows is just so superior these days to most movies and network TV.
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Post by gersarchitect on Jan 2, 2012 13:17:25 GMT -5
You are absolutely right about politics, mymymy. Some really great actors never campaigned for an award and they never got one even though they are way more talented than some academy award winners. I know Canadia mentioned that before with Gary Oldman. It's kind of a shame that PR and campaigning for an award weighs in just as much as a performance when all that should be considered is the performance. Campaigning too early like what happened with Gerry and MGP can hurt you too so this is a complicated political game you have to play. This is so ridiculous. Actors should concentrate on acting and should be rewarded for great acting and not for running a great awards campaign.
PS I hate autocorrect on iPads. Sometimes it gives me the weirdest suggestions and I don't catch it right away. Sorry for that. Canadia, Sandra didn't get the Razzie for The Blind Side but that awful romcom she did with Bradley Cooper.
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Post by canadia on Jan 2, 2012 13:20:46 GMT -5
Also we do forget that many great actors and actresses and directors have been ignored by the Academy totally or they've been nominated but never won and it stumps people all the time.
Henry Fonda considered one of the best actors in Hollywood ever only won an Oscar in 1981, a good forty years after his first nomination, how is that for waiting a very very long time. Though the BAFTAs gave him an award in 1957 for 12 Angry Men. That was tour de force performance - how did he not win best actor for 12 Angry Men in 1957?
I get the feeling Fonda family was never one for playing the Hollywood game in the expected way either.
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Post by gersarchitect on Jan 2, 2012 13:28:11 GMT -5
BB, agree on Gerry's looks for TBH, not my favorite. I know he turned down Day and Knight to do TBH and even though Day wasn't great either as far as I heard it probably would have been the better choice... How can it be worse? Well, ok, there are worse movie than TBH, the one with Sandra and Bradley Cooper she won the Razzie for.... All About Steve.
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Post by canadia on Jan 2, 2012 13:36:19 GMT -5
Thanks GA for the correction, I thought she was getting the Razzie for the same performance as the Oscar which would have really been ironic or a condemnation of the Oscars, I don't even remember Bullock doing a movie with Cooper.
I do wonder though how much do critical reviews affect box office. My brother and his wife went to see The Bounty Hunter - they are not the type to scan the papers or internet for critical reviews, and they went to see it because Gerard was in it. It was good enough for them for dinner and a movie night. And TBH certainly made more money than most of the naysayers would have guessed.
Word of mouth is still a bigger influence with most people I know. Whether it is a new restaurant in town or a movie. You trust the opinions of your friends with similar tastes. So if the movie really sucked or was really good, the word gets out BUT it all depends on if you can get the people in the theatre in the first place to make that assessment and the movie stays in town long enough to get to. They don't let films build up momentum anymore just like shows on network TV. Many of the great TV shows in history did not have good ratings their first season. MASH, All in the Family to just name two. In today's environment they would have been cancelled and how sad.
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Tartan Spartan
Gerard Butler watcher
THIS. IS. TARTANSPARTAN!
Posts: 210
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Post by Tartan Spartan on Jan 2, 2012 13:51:20 GMT -5
Even though it is unlikely that Gerry will get any recognition for MGP, I think that, combined with Coriolanus, will mark a change in the kinds of roles he does and hopefully how seriously people take him. I hope that PTF is more akin to Dear Frankie and doesn't get screwed by poor marketing like MGP did and I have very high hopes of OMAM being a blockbuster that also has great performances. I think he finally cracked the American accent with MGP. Maybe it is easier to do it playing a real person with a real specific regional accent rather than the generic ones he has gone for with TUT and TBH etc. I think he is at a turning point in his career now, I think for the positive, the only thing I would advise are the following points: (like he listens to me!!) 1) Pick projects carefully going for quality rather than quantity 2) Avoid anything like TBH like the plague! 3) Don't get involved in any more dodgy sponsors like L'Oreal! 4) Maybe go a bit more au naturale in the hair dept (I am one of those rare fans who would like to see some natural grey!) and it would add some gravity to those heavier roles! Gerry's day will come when he will get the recognition he deserves.
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Post by gersarchitect on Jan 2, 2012 13:58:50 GMT -5
All About Steve came out only a couple of months before The Blind Side. It was equally condemned by critics and movie goers and it came and went pretty quickly though it wasn't a complete flop. It made like 30 to 40 Mio on a small budget.
My friends I went and saw TBH with enjoyed it way more than I did. Maybe I just have higher expectations of Gerry.
I agree with you about the momentum.... Kind of sad how a lot of movies are judged by the opening weekend only. Several of Gerry's movies did build momentum through word of mouth like POTO and PSILY. But MGP never had that chance. Yes, same is true about TV shows. Like Moonlight with Alex O'Laughlin. If they would have given it another season it would have taken off huge because of Twilight coming out. Missed opportunity I think.
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